Nick Olsen: Growing a Network of M&A Advisory Firms

Craig Castelli (00:05):

Welcome to The Close M&A Podcast with Caber Hill Advisors. I’m your host, Craig Castelli, and today my guest is Nick Olsen, managing director of the Cornerstone International Alliance of which we are members. Had to rock my fancy Cornerstone vest today in Nick’s honor. Nick’s also the host of The M&A Mastermind podcast, which I highly suggest everybody check out perhaps in two weeks when he’s going to be releasing [00:00:30] an episode with yours truly as the guest. But today’s all about Nick and he has a very unique position, specifically with CIA, but also with running the podcast where his exposure to a lot of M&A advisors and others in the M&A ecosystem and really gets to see and learn a lot about what business owners are experiencing working with M&A advisors and other service providers, and what really makes certain advisors [00:01:00] shine and others not so much. So Nick, let’s start right there. Tell us what makes a really excellent M&A advisor like 90th percentile or greater. Excellent.

Nick Olsen (01:10):

Just mimic Craig Castelli and when he does, then you’re golden.

Craig Castelli (01:15):

That’s a wrap, folks. Thanks for joining.

Nick Olsen (01:16):

It’s funny, it’s a great question and a great topic, and it’s something that Craig, you as a firm owner know, and if you don’t get this right, it can cost you a lot of time and [00:01:30] money not only to find someone, to replace someone and they’re going to meet your clients and your referral sources and what that can do to those relationships. So not to be overdramatic, but it can have a lasting effect on your firm and what you do, so you want to make sure you get it right. And so at Cornerstone International Alliance, about a couple of years ago, we did an M&A advisor job benchmark, and we really wanted, did behavioral [00:02:00] science. We dove deep into what makes a good M&A advisor. So I’ll kind of intertwine that into my answer here, but first and foremost, I get, like you said, I’m the managing director of Cornerstone International Alliance.

(02:13):

We have 165 M&A advisors in our group. The last four years, we closed a total of $5.5 billion in enterprise value. And so there’s a lot of deals being done, a lot of M&A advisors who are doing those deals, and [00:02:30] my job is to work with them and help them out and help them hopefully do their job a little bit easier and better. And so that’s a huge group of advisors. Like you said with a podcast last week would’ve been my 100th episode. So 100 unique guests that I get to talk to and learn about and share their expertise has been an amazing run. And when we bring in a firm to our group, we vet everybody. So we have a checklist of things that we [00:03:00] look for in a firm and in people. And I think everything starts with just being a good person and having that abundance mindset and just looking to collaborate.

(03:10):

That is what our alliance was built around, and that’s what I think makes a really good M&A advisor. And so I get to talk, we have regularly scheduled meetings. We do meetings with all the firm owners on a monthly basis. I bring all the advisors together on a regular basis and we just talk about topics that are relevant, [00:03:30] but we also get to talk about things that are challenging, issues that they’re running into or things they might need help on. And so it’s interesting to see what are the things they might be struggling with and things like that. And so all that combined together, I think that’s why you had the question today and why I feel like I’m good to answer it is I get to work with a lot of MA advisors. Very lucky with that. And so [00:04:00] with all that being said, kind of going back to what makes a really good advisor, I think the first thing is relationship management.

(04:09):

You need to be the trusted advisor to your client. And if you don’t develop that trust early on, I think you’re setting yourself up for failure, set clear expectations, go dirty early, go ugly early, that kind of mentality. Get everything out on the forefront and really develop and build that rapport with your client I think is hugely important because [00:04:30] once you develop that trust, that rapport, they understand you, you understand them, I think it makes your life as an M&A advisor a lot easier. And I would highly recommend whenever you’re meeting your client, pitching your client, things like that, that you understand them not only from the business level but on a personal level because there’s a true emotional element to this transaction. And I think that if you understand them on that deeper personal level, it’ll allow you to connect with them better.

(04:58):

And I think it’ll help you during the entire [00:05:00] entire deal process. So I think having that relationship management is huge. Also, communication overcommunicate, I was just in a meeting the other day and we’re talking about whether it’s a referral source or a client check in, give them an update on a regular basis over communicate because the last thing you want to have happen is they feel like they’re left out of the loop and they find out some piece of information from somebody else and not from you directly. That’s not necessarily [00:05:30] a good look for you as well. And so spend a lot of time honing in your relationship skills and management skills, and I think that’s one of the big ones.

Craig Castelli (05:41):

At the end of the day, people do business with people for company may make a widget and it may sell that widget to another company and it may be selling its company to a private equity firm, but at the end of the day, you have people running those companies, you have people making the investment decisions, you have people who have to get together and coalesce around [00:06:00] whatever the decision is, whatever the goal is. And if you can’t communicate, if you can’t relate in any level, it’s a challenge. And that’s certainly the case. Even more so given some of the stressful situations we find ourselves in leading M&A transactions.

Nick Olsen (06:18):

And kind of mentioned the referral source before. I mean, there are a lot of the ones that we are working with to bring these companies to market. So definitely don’t leave them out in the dark either because they [00:06:30] brought you the opportunity, just give them the courtesy of just, Hey, pick up the phone. Hey, we just had a great meet. We just presented the valuation. This is great. I think we’re going to go to market just kind of step-by-step process of keeping them in the loop. I think they’ll appreciate that. Plus hopefully they’ll bring you some more business.

Craig Castelli (06:45):

Right? Right, exactly. Well, Cornerstone Alliance, we found it hugely valuable, but it’s what, 35 firms at this point, pushing 40 somewhere in that ballpark.

Nick Olsen (06:56):

Yep, yep.

Craig Castelli (06:57):

So you have 35 to 40 of [00:07:00] the best out there, mostly US and Canada, but a handful of international markets. There are thousands upon thousands of people who bill themselves with M&A advisors. Why do so many fail to live up to the standard of being considered the best of being up to snuff with what Cornerstone would allow into its network?

Nick Olsen (07:21):

Yeah, I think when we look at a firm and what we hold near and dear to our hearts on bringing people in is are they doing [00:07:30] quality work? Are they the true trusted advisor? Are they communicating? Are they developing that rapport and trust? Are they closing deals? Are they doing deals? We’re focused on lower middle market and that’s just where we focus. And so we’re looking at firms doing deals in that area, showing that expertise and that experience. When you run a true collaborative network, you want to be talking about the same thing. So we have this profile and I think that [00:08:00] when you’re looking at firms and people who are successful and people who are not successful, what are the differences? I think one of the big things that I’ve done a lot of work on what is CIA doing for our members, and I think that’s solving for the problem of isolation. If you are brand new to the industry, you’ve never done M&A and you’re going to go out on your own, that’s a lonely feeling.

(08:29):

You’re [00:08:30] just retire from your 40-year career out of whatever industry and you’re looking to get into doing something to the sunset tour of your career and you don’t know where to go. And so we really fixed that problem of isolation where Craig, you’ve built an amazing team. So you have a team, you have that group within your group, but even for you, you’re a very active member of ours and I know you have an amazing team, but you’ll also be very active in just asking questions [00:09:00] to the group, even responding with answers and sharing your experiences. And that goes a long way. I think, you tell me your opinion, you’re in it where if you have an issue or you need help with something and you don’t know where to go, you’re stuck and you might not make the wisest decisions for your client.

(09:19):

Where now if you have a network like CIA — 35 firms, 165 advisors — you can ask the question, you get a bunch of different answers, not only to help you [00:09:30] better yourself, but also help you in that moment where you might be dealing with an issue and you might need to fix it. And you know how this industry goes, things happen in a hurry. You need that help and that assistance now you got this built-in network that you can reach out to and get that help get those answers right away. So I think building a network around you to insulate you from that isolation and that just lack of knowledge and resources is huge.

Craig Castelli (09:58):

Think absolutely. I mean, I think [00:10:00] it’s easy to get isolated when you run any type of business and you talk to company operators, a lot of ’em will rave about EO, YPO, Vistage, these peer groups of other CEOs and business owners that they get to spend a lot of time around and it’s that glass half full, glass half empty type of scenario there. You’re feeling at the top of the world, you come into your peer group, you find out someone’s kicking your butt, you’re down in the dumps, and others [00:10:30] in your peer group will tell you, Hey, look, we went through that too. Here’s what we did. Or we’re all experiencing the same thing right now because of what’s going on in the market and it’s valuable feedback gets you out of the echo chamber, gets you out of your own head, really helps keep things on track. I mean the access to the other firm leaders in your group, I find to be one of the most valuable parts of it.

Nick Olsen (10:51):

And not only will it help you with issues, it almost validates maybe to what you’re thinking like, Hey, this sounds right. I think it’s going to work to get that validation just [00:11:00] gives you that confidence to move forward with that. I think if you’re looking in lower middle market M&A too, lack of resources is I think an issue too where you might need to do the research, understand the market, value your client’s company to the best of your ability, and these resources are really, really expensive. And if you don’t have access to those, you’re kind of at a disadvantage compared to the firms that maybe have a larger team or are part of a network like CIA. And so I think [00:11:30] that’s also helpful where you can go to these tools and resources, find the correct buyers for your opportunity instead of just Googling that you’ve all been there, we’ve all done that. That can be a grind.

Craig Castelli (11:42):

It’s funny you mentioned the resources. We for years, as you know, have used a service called PitchBook, which is a big data provider tracking transaction activity, mostly private capital markets. And I remember years ago talking with the head of a competing [00:12:00] firm, not a universal competitor of ours, but we compete with them in a single industry. And he said, why do you use that? I would never pay for that. I know who all the buyers are. You can’t possibly know who all the buyers are. And if you know who they all are today, it’s going to change tomorrow. And you really need that combination of, I say it’s relationships supported by data. Yes, we have a lot of relationships and it’s important to maintain those with the buy side because you get a lot of intelligence that way, but you also need the data providers giving you [00:12:30] a totally different angle to really round everything out. If you don’t have those tools, the pod you’re fishing in is just going to be a lot smaller. A narrower bio list leads to narrower outcomes leads to a lower likelihood of success.

Nick Olsen (12:43):

Yeah, absolutely. And you want get those multiple offers and it is a numbers game quite honestly. Another thing I’ll say to that too is you have a lack of a process, then you’re going to run into issues too, I think document [00:13:00] your process, follow your process, trust your process. Don’t just go rogue on things just because especially if you’re on your own or you’re new to the business, you got to find your process first and foremost. So that can be a little overwhelming. But I think what makes a really good M&A advisor is the focus on the things that drive the business forward. And as an M&A advisor, like I said before, it’s that relationship management. [00:13:30] Your job is to lead and close deals. So you got to be really good at that. If you’re working on all the other things, data rooms and marketing materials and buyer’s lists and all these other things, you’re not focused on necessarily leading and closing the deal.

(13:46):

Time kills all deals and that just delays it. And that might derail your deal. I think you got to be really, really good at business development goes back to that relationship management, not only with your clients, but you got to have that business development engine continuously [00:14:00] going so the pipeline doesn’t dry up. So building your network not only of finding business owners, but your referral sources. I think we talk about this all the time in our group. Develop those referral source networks for you because we’re all working with the same client. So if we can be the trusted advisor to the trusted advisor of the client, that’s going to lead to a lot of opportunities. Be really, really good at business [00:14:30] development. And then just hone in on your craft. We have a built in continuous learning model within CIA where we’re getting together on a regular basis.

(14:38):

We’re talking about things that are relevant, talking about topics that are going to help us improve our M&A game, so to speak. And so just get involved in industries. You talk about provisor, eo, things like that. Get together with a group of your network, being a part of a group like CIA and then just going to conferences and [00:15:00] things like that, whether it’s within your industry. I know you go to a lot of conferences in the dental space and you’re considered the expert in that space and anybody, Hey, I got a healthcare question. Alright, go to Craig. He’s the man, you got to go talk to him and this is how it works. You’ll pick up the phone and be like, I think you had a call today with one of our members on an opportunity. You probably spend

Craig Castelli (15:22):

Had one yesterday too.

Nick Olsen (15:23):

Yeah, probably 30 minutes, 60 minutes. Just educating them. You don’t need to do that. But you have that [00:15:30] abundance, collaborative mindset where you’ll help them out, they’ll come back and help you out when you need it at some point in time. So just that continuing education as well. So those are the main four things that I think are successful for or make M&A advisor successful. And if you’re not doing those, that’s where you might fall off and not be able to compete with the quality ones out there

Craig Castelli (15:53):

Without a doubt. So that’s all great advice for the M&A advisor. Now, switch gears a little bit and put yourself [00:16:00] in the shoes of a business owner who’s interviewing M&A advisors. Maybe they get introduced to three, they’re hearing pitches from three, all three are going to come in, they’re going to tell ’em how great their business is. They’re going to tell ’em how much money they can get. They’re going to tell ’em how successful they have been in all the transactions they’ve led. What do business owners need to look for to cut through that noise and really determine who’s going to be the best fit for them?

Nick Olsen (16:27):

And that’s a great question you think about, [00:16:30] I’m going to tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. There’s a lot of people out there who tell the business owner like, I’m going to get you 10 x for you and it’s going to be amazing. And it’s like, well, is that really the case? What have you done the research to do that? So I would say definitely when you’re interviewing an M&A firm, check their track record. How many deals have they done? How long have they been in the industry? Do they have a team approach? I think a team approach is important. Now we have some unicorns [00:17:00] in our group who can do it on their own and are doing a really, really good job. But I would say if you’re getting into the industry to be a part of a team, not only from a support perspective, but you can bring in people as you need, whether it’s an analyst valuations person, a marketing person, the advisor, you as the firm owner, we can all tag team this together to make sure that we’re servicing the client holistically.

(17:27):

And so have that checks and balances too of different people. [00:17:30] But having a good quality M&A advisor with good track record closing deals I think is hugely important. I would say check references, maybe ask for a client or two that they’ve closed a deal with and just see what that experience was like from that other business owner and see what they do. I do that all the time. When we look at firms coming into the alliance, I’ll call a professional reference and I’m an attorney, I just talked to a business consultant on a new firm looking to [00:18:00] come in. I talked to their client, you find this funny, Craig, you’ve been a part, you’ve been on our board, our process. And we usually get a client reference. I talked to a client reference who’s actually in process with this firm going through it. I’m like, I want to talk to you in a couple of months just to see how it goes, but how is it going so far? It’s like, well, it’s going well. We will find out. But I’ve never had someone do a client reference while they’re actually selling the company, which is

Craig Castelli (18:25):

Interesting. That’s interesting. Someone gave me an idea last week, which I need to figure [00:18:30] out the best way to do it, but it would be to record a series of podcasts with a client while they’re going through the process and then likely, well obviously wait until the deal is done and announced to release all of them, but get some real time feedback and insight into what a business owner’s actually going through at these different stages. Could be really interesting. It could be a little risky, but it could be really interesting.

Nick Olsen (18:55):

It could be an amazing episode. I think this is a great idea you had. [00:19:00] But I think going back to the question, and I think definitely are they experienced in the industry? I know you will go up with anybody in the dental space and I think nine and a half times out of 10 you’re going to win those just because the way your firm’s set up, but also your experience and expertise. And I love the way you did it. You came prior to M&A, right? You were in that space in a certain role. [00:19:30] So you spent many years understanding the industry. And I think that’s a great way to go about getting into M&A. If you’re, you’re looking for a niche, just dive into it. And I would say focus is a big thing. Communications, make sure you’re focused on, I dunno what your thoughts are on this. Do you ever get asked the question, how many deals at a time are you working on from a client? Because I think they might be like, well, you’re not going to give me the attention I need if you got [00:20:00] five deals going on. Do you ever get that question?

Craig Castelli (20:02):

We absolutely get that. We get that question. I won’t say every deal, but definitely the savvier business owners or those with savvy other advisors in their corner are asking that question. It’s more at the MD or a team level than it is the firm overall, because the firm overall can be really busy and a managing director could only be working on one or two deals and they’re getting all of their attention. But yeah, it’s [00:20:30] absolutely an important question that business owners should be asking. You touched on industry specialization, which is we could probably have an entire episode on the topic of industry specialization, but do you find that there are certain sectors or situations when that matters more than others?

Nick Olsen (20:52):

Yes. The short answer is yes. And I think the more niche the industry, the more that comes into account. [00:21:00] I think you look at, there are a couple that come to mind, technology, SaaS, software, those are kind of really coming popular, but it’s just different than a manufacturing deal. You got to just look at things, you value it differently. You got to look at it differently. They might not even making any money yet and they can still sell the company because it’s a technology deal. So that ones, and [00:21:30] I think more people are trying to get into doing those deals. We see it all the time in our group. We have a couple of software specialists, one in particular, Shauna at Paragon Software Advisors, it’s in the name, so they’re going to be amazing. But she has been a go-to resource whenever anybody has a software or tech deal, just, Hey, I haven’t done one before.

(21:53):

I’d like to do and I’d like to get that experience. Can you help me out? And everybody, Sean’s going to say, absolutely. And then [00:22:00] she’ll kind of coach them through it and then they’ll be able to do this deal in software that they might not have otherwise done. I think another one is the one you’re in healthcare, if you don’t understand the nuances of healthcare, you might be at a disadvantage compared to other firms. So you are a go-to firm in your space, dental audiology, and I think everybody in our group knows it and they’ll reach out to you. Like I said, you have a bunch of questions and conversations all the time. [00:22:30] So I think that’s another one. And then we have another firm who, another spin on his Sharon Heat out in Virginia. She does government contracting deals. That’s all she does. I mean, the ins and outs and the intricacies of a government contracting deal is very unique. And if you’re going at it alone without ever doing one good luck.

(22:56):

It’s like, and then, yeah, so I think just [00:23:00] the more niche, if you’re going general manufacturing, great, but if you look industrial automation, that’s niche enough where if you have an industry expert, you’re going to win the deal more often than not. So I do think if you’re, you do have that industry focus doesn’t necessarily mean you only have to do that industry, but if you can show that you’re an expert, you have experience and maybe worked in that industry, you’ve done closed tens of 20 deals in that industry, you’re [00:23:30] going to be a go-to person for that industry and I think it’ll benefit you. Do you guys have verticals, right? A couple of

Craig Castelli (23:39):

’em, yeah. So for the most part, the cornerstone of the firm, no pun intended, was healthcare facility services. So Peter Holt who joined me right after launching the firm has headed up facility services is what he spent literally his lifetime working in family business to his post-college career. Healthcare was my background [00:24:00] mostly in the allied health practices, but extending other areas of medicine and getting into some devices and products and things like that. And then as we’ve grown and added some people, we’ve seen an uptick in more traditional business services as well as some of the manufacturing and distribution. And what I’ll say about what I will tell people about our firm, depending on who I’m talking to, is that we have industries that we focus on, but we have generalist capabilities. And if we don’t need a PhD [00:24:30] just to understand what the company does, then we can probably handle the deal. It’s just a question of if it ultimately is the right fit for us based on some other criteria that we might incorporate. But healthcare, especially when you get into reimbursement risk

(24:47):

Software, especially if you get into any sort of IP, pre-revenue is hard enough, but anytime you have to evaluate and value code or any other type of IP, it is its own [00:25:00] world. Very different from anything else. Energy is its own unique beast. Government contracts and like you mentioned, these are the areas of real specialization. I don’t think specialization’s ever bad. We’re going to look at some of the manufacturing and facility services deals as being simpler businesses to understand, and maybe the learning curve is a little shorter there, but you go up against a guy like Peter in the janitorial sector who’s done [00:25:30] dozens of deals over the years, knows every buyer, knows the intricacies of how they’re going to structure deals. That’s really where the art comes in. I know we can push them on this point. We can’t push them on that point. This other buyer’s, the opposite really helps give a full well-rounded view to the transaction.

Nick Olsen (25:47):

No doubt. And like I said, it’s never going to be a bad thing and you can always deviate, but I think when I hear you talking about that, it’s like you want to venture into this other thing as a generalist, you can do so by being [00:26:00] a part of this alliance because now you have people who can guide you so you don’t have to feel so isolated. Kind of going back to the original question of I want to do this manufacturing deal, I’ve never done one before. Do I refer it out or I just give it a try? Well, now it’s like I’m going to do it and I’m going to get help and we’re going to knock it out of the park.

Craig Castelli (26:21):

Yeah, it is funny. I will watch individuals who have been in an industry for a very long time say they want to make a change and [00:26:30] it’s a grass is greener effect. The reality is you’re more successful, you’re more effective, and you probably have fewer headaches staying in the lane that you’ve been in for a very long time. Even if there was a little bit of a mundane aspect to it, dealing with the same types of businesses and grouping of buyers, time it again, but that rinse and repeat effect to a business is very, very powerful.

Nick Olsen (26:56):

I mean, if you’re going through all the research of [00:27:00] understanding the market and you have another one in the, you’re just going to efficiencies save time and be able to do hopefully more opportunities and do them on a different level than the generalist can do.

Craig Castelli (27:12):

Yeah. So on the note of just thinking about business owners and what to tell them, are there any red flags, like big shiny red flags you tell ’em to look out for, whether it’s in a presentation or even down to, without putting you in an uncomfortable position, saying something you don’t want to say [00:27:30] contract details, certain terms that a bad actor ask for that the average firm doesn’t.

Nick Olsen (27:38):

I think one red flag for me is me. You’re the business owner, Craig, and I’m trying to pitch you. I’m amazing coming off that I’m smarter than everybody else. I’m smarter than you. You need to come with me because I, I’m amazing. I’ve done all these deals. If you’re talking so much about yourself, your firm, and [00:28:00] why you need to do it without understanding and connecting with the client, I think that’s a red flag for me because why are you doing that? I’m going to get you 10 x, 12 x, whatever it is them promising the moon is another red flag. I think if someone’s real with you, and like I said before, tells you what you need to hear and not what you want to hear.

(28:26):

In my opinion, that’s being real and that’s someone [00:28:30] I want to work with in that regard. But if you’re going through, and we talked about this recently in a communication team chat that we have is just making sure that there’s follow through, making sure that the deal’s moving forward, making sure that you’re comfortable with the progress and you get a good vibe from your M&A firm just because if you feel like this is cheap, it doesn’t feel [00:29:00] right, trust your gut, because a lot of times it can be you want to be with an MA advisor who’s going to deliver results and what do we say typical time for a deal is, I don’t know, it could be six months, could be 12 months in that range. And if you’re lagging after 12 months and you could see no real progress, you probably didn’t select the right firm. You want to make sure that their deal, your contract, your deal terms are fair. [00:29:30] If there’s the two year tail of, Hey, if you sell to this buyer in the next two years, I get a cut, like the red flag. You want to make sure that your advisor’s going bad for you, your team’s going to bad for you, and they really have your best interest in mind that they’re not just looking for a paycheck.

(29:51):

I think, and I think you’re like this, a lot of our members are like this, we’re going to put our money where our mouth is, we’re [00:30:00] going to perform, and that’s how we get paid. So we have no other way to do it than to close a deal to the best of our ability to structure that our client wants and needs. And so we’re really working out for the client, and that’s first and foremost. You got to feel that trust there. And if you feel like, yeah, you’re just another number, that’s a red flag to me too.

Craig Castelli (30:23):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our approach has always been take on a very small number of clients, close every single deal, [00:30:30] and it would hurt if we couldn’t do that for sure. The only time we really lose pitches is when somebody over promises and a business owner was told what they were hoping to hear, not what they needed to hear we’re the ones who tell ’em what they need to hear. They grab onto the bright shiny object, and oftentimes just through inertia and deal fatigue, they get a deal done probably more along the lines of what we told ’em or less as opposed [00:31:00] to what was initially promised. But those promises get signature signed. That’s the reality.

Nick Olsen (31:07):

Well, and I was going to say, if you’re a business owner and you have multiple firms you’re looking into, which is good, I think you would feel comfortable going up against any firm and feel good about it. Not that you want to, but if you do, it’s like if you see one outlier way up here and the other two or three are down here, that’s also a red flag. That’s probably not realistic.

Craig Castelli (31:29):

Yeah. [00:31:30] I’ll throw one more out there. And that is, you should ask the question, is the person pitching you the person who’s going to be leading the deal? And it may be okay if that’s not the case, but you have a right to know as a business owner going into the process. Who are you working with after you sign a contract?

Nick Olsen (31:49):

Yeah, absolutely. You want to know the team. You want to know who you’re working with. You want to, like I said, it’s all about developing that rapport because if someone’s pitching, I like this guy, he’s good. And then, oh, by the way, you’re working with [00:32:00] this person. Okay, well, what happened? You want to know? And then I think too, if you’re pitching to pitch with, if you have a team approach to bring your team to the table so the business owner knows this person’s doing this, this person’s doing that, you might hear from them during this period of time and this person maybe in a couple of weeks or whatever, but just kind of be upfront about who’s doing what and who’s in that team, I think is a good move.

Craig Castelli (32:29):

Completely [00:32:30] agree. So last question here, a little risky for me to ask this because you’ve been given advice this entire half hour, but I’m going to ask you for one more. What’s a piece of advice that the listeners of this podcast probably haven’t heard somewhere else?

Nick Olsen (32:46):

I wrote it down, but I talked a lot about it today. So I am going to think while I go, but something that is really, really important to me, and I think it is what makes the Alliance tick, is give to [00:33:00] get. Don’t always have your hand out looking for things. I think you see this all the time, Craig, where you’re willing to pick up a phone, have an hour conversation with someone, you’re just giving, helping, being collaborative and mindful of others. And I think karma’s the thing. I think that just comes back full circle to you, whether it’s in business or earn life, and I think that [00:33:30] it’s a great way to live your life and work on your business.

Craig Castelli (33:35):

So we’re about an hour into the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey engagement. I thought I’d be able to avoid making a joke about it, but you just said karma. That’s all I can think about now. So Nick, this has been a lot of fun. If anybody listening here wants to find you or get ahold of you, where are you going to direct them?

Nick Olsen (33:55):

Yeah, you can reach out to me on [00:34:00] LinkedIn. Our website is cornerstoneia.com. Definitely check out the M&A Mastermind podcast. It is a podcast, like I said, we just completed 100 episodes, which is crazy to me. And it’s all about M&A. It’s all about the M&A advisor and what you need to be doing to level up your game. So that’s the M&A advisor, the M&A Mastermind podcast. Go to cornerstone ia.com/podcast. You’ll find all of our episodes there. [00:34:30] If you want to be a guest on my show like Craig is and has been, reach out to me and we’ll get you on.

Craig Castelli (34:38):

Well, Nick, this has been a lot of fun. Congrats on a hundred episodes. Definitely gives me something to shoot for. And I’d just like to thank you once again for joining, and thank all of you for watching us on The Close.