Denielle Finkelstein & Thyme Sullivan: Advancing Women in the Workplace

Craig Castellli (00:04):
Welcome to The Close M&A Podcast with Caber Hill Advisors. I’m your host, Craig Castelli, and today my guests are cousins and co-founders of Unicorn, Denielle Finkelstein and Thyme Sullivan. You both left lucrative corporate jobs in 2018, or at least I’m using the word lucrative. You can correct me on that one, but 2018, you leave stable corporate jobs, you start Unicorn. What’s the [00:00:30] original idea and why’d you think it would work?
Thyme Sullivan (00:33):
That is a great question. And they were lucrative because not only were we cousins, co-founders, and co-CEOs, we were also the breadwinners in our families. So this was a big leap for us to explain to our families why we were doing this. But there was always this idea that we know what was happening in our corporate careers. We had worked so hard to get to the top executive levels that we were at, but we were really seeking purpose and what if, [00:01:00] and the idea originally was simply we just wanted to make better period products for our own daughters, and we started a very traditional trajectory. This was back when it was a very big D2C market, so we were direct to consumer and Amazon. We were pretty quickly able to get into several thousand retailers because of our backgrounds, but our mission has always been to advocate for women and to change women’s lives. And we found pretty quickly on that the traditional model wasn’t really changing anything in the world, and [00:01:30] if we were going to go through all this pain and suffering that we needed to find a way to take this idea and really tie it more closely to our mission.
Craig Castellli (01:42):
Yeah, well talk about that a little bit because you made a pretty big pivot just a couple years in to get out of retail and adopt more of a B2B sales channel. So tell us about the pivot and bring us current to where the business is today.
Denielle Finkelstein (02:00):
[00:02:00] Yep. I would say the two big risks that we have made in the last seven years, one was us leaving those corporate jobs and then the second was this pivot because when you looked on paper, when you saw an outsider, they would see, they’re like, oh my God, you guys are in thousands and thousands of retailers. That’s amazing. You made it, and these were big names on the east coast. It was your Wegmans down south, it was H-E-B. We were with Fresh Time and Sprouts. And then on the west coast we were with Erewhon and we really had a strong [00:02:30] footprint and we were on a national scale, but we sat back and we really looked at, so three and a half years ago, we were doing one of our strategy meetings, really sitting down. We were looking at the numbers, and at the end of the day, it’s really hard to make money in retail.
(02:47):
It’s particularly as a small brand, your margins just continue to get cut. You’ve got your distributors, you’ve got your broker, then you’ve got to run promotions. And so all these big guys are also running up against us. And so we really sat [00:03:00] back and we had another portion of our business that was bulk and we were selling into offices. And so they were providing, and they would always ask us, can your product go in the dispensers that are in the bathrooms? Thyme and I since day 1, since we started this, we’re always obsessed with those dispensers. Like those things are terrible. They are these big metal machines that are in the common area. They’re always broken, who carries a quarter, and the quality of the product is from 1980. And we’re like, nothing has been modernized here. Nothing’s been innovated. [00:03:30] And so in this setting of this team, and we’re looking at the numbers, the financials, as Thyme just said, our original mission was always that we wanted to advocate for women and change women’s lives.
(03:41):
We’re like, we’re not doing that, selling a premium product on shelf. And we really sat back and said, okay, we’re going to actually pivot this business. We’re going to rebrand our business as well, but we’re going to pivot this business. Because as we started to look at what the market was and where the opportunity was going after [00:04:00] this B2B model and going after more of this institutional side, there was nothing there. It was all white space. Rather than playing in a crowded field, we’re like, okay, we actually can actually create this ourself and we can build this market ourself. And the most important thing is when we went back to our purpose, we’re actually upholding what our original mission was. So we had the two places of like, okay, we’re going to go after. We’re going to design our own dispenser. Initially when we designed our own dispenser, we had it in the common area [00:04:30] just like everyone else, and we’re like, wait a second, this makes no sense.
(04:35):
Period products need to be where there’s toilet paper. And so we moved ourselves into the physical stall, and that was really the biggest part of this pivot. And so three years ago, that success of making that decision was the best thing we could have done for the business, but now future also now for our investors and our team and what we’re doing, and then again, what our mission is. And so really that pivot was hands down, we look [00:05:00] back and we’re like, okay, we are really proud of the fact that we made that and we were able to successfully get ourselves to the next slide
Craig Castellli (05:09):
And is so logical to me, and as somebody who has very little experience inside of women’s bathrooms, but I have a wife, I have a 13-year-old daughter, and just thinking about the mission and what you aim to accomplish, it is logical. It’s also impressive. And frankly, it’s shocking to me that in 2025, [00:05:30] this is a problem that still exists.
Denielle Finkelstein (05:32):
Listen, Craig, you’ve never thought about your toilet paper. We say this all the time to men, and that really is one of those statements when you actually say it to, because women are like, oh, well, I’ve carried it. Oh, we’ve made all the excuses for ourself. But as soon as we bring it to men’s, the awareness for them, they’re like, wait a second. That is stupid. Wait, you’re going to the common area to get it or wait. You have to care. It really is just as soon as they understand that relationship, [00:06:00] that’s where men are actually our number one adopters more than women,
Thyme Sullivan (06:04):
Especially men that have daughters because they don’t want their daughter to ever be in a situation where she didn’t have products. And it is funny, my husband actually says, if guys needed these, he’s like, they would’ve been next to the toilet paper 50 years ago. Just get party favors.
Craig Castellli (06:15):
There’s no question. Yeah. So you mentioned that your investors love the idea. I’m curious if they loved it from day one and how they reacted when you first rolled this news out.
Thyme Sullivan (06:27):
Oh my God. Talk about courage. No, the investors hated [00:06:30] it. And us, quite frankly, for during the original pivot, and it’s a really interesting question because their whole point was that they invested in us because of our deep experience in consumer products. I mean, I had worked for Coke and Pepsi and Nestle for over 27 years. So they were like, you understand this, and that’s why we invested. And Denielle had this amazing pedigree from her years in fashion with branding and marketing with Ann Taylor and Coach and Kate Spade and Talbots, and very high level executive jobs. So they were like, what are you doing? Because [00:07:00] our revenue went from, and I don’t know who’s watching or who’s just listening, but this is an upward spike to cratered. And we had to defend that because we could see that we weren’t profitable, and we always are going to be a business of impact, but we also have to make money.
(07:15):
This is not a nonprofit. Investing in women is not a charity. And we are business women and we were going to build a successful business. And I would tell you the most interesting thing, so fast forward, obviously our investors are very happy now because we’ve identified a white space. We’re [00:07:30] solving a problem, we’re making impact, we’re making revenue. All those things are happening. But early on, somebody told us, hold out as long as you can before you take venture. And we are so incredibly grateful that we took that advice because it would’ve been an entirely different story. We would not have been able to make that pivot. And this pivot is probably the best thing that’s ever happened to the business. So I would tell you as our business matures early on, I think that that’s a pitfall that can happen if you raise a lot of money really quickly [00:08:00] and can’t make the really important business pivots that are about long-term instead of short-term financial gains.
Craig Castellli (08:09):
Yeah, yeah, no question. I mean, it’s the definition of a blue ocean. You’ve literally created a brand new product category here, and I’m sure it’s not easy to roll it out and get adoption and all the other challenges with building a business, especially building 2.0 of that business. But you went from a hyper competitive space on the store shelves trying to stand out amongst [00:08:30] the sea of others to it’s you and it’s really old, crappy product in the common area, or it’s you in the stall, and that’s really it. And I’m sure there’s just an amplification that occurs as more and more buildings and more and more companies adopt this. So we’ve touched on this a little bit, but maybe not gotten directly to the point. What has been most critical to your success up to this point?
Denielle Finkelstein (08:58):
This is one of the questions that we love [00:09:00] because early on Thyme and I, we were taking our old executive backgrounds and we were also thinking like, okay, we’ve got these tenure of executive jobs and leadership and huge companies that we could go and raise money. We could go raise millions of dollars. And the problem was we weren’t talking to the right people. And so early on what we recognized is that we had to ensure that the folks around us [00:09:30] that we were aligned mission wise, that also what their interests were. It just we needed to get ourselves into the right room with the right people. And that alone, when we made that change and we weren’t knocking on doors that really were not going to open for us, that again, they were looking at us. We were old ladies selling tampons, so they didn’t want anything to do with us.
(09:52):
It was finding those that did understand what we were doing that then could give us advice that also helped us along the [00:10:00] way that then invested in us. And so it was ensuring that when we made that shift, and it was really, it’s five years ago, finding that right network that now has opened so many doors, and we say this to folks all the time, listen, if a door’s not opening, there’s a reason. So go find another door, another door to open, or there’s another table to sit at. And that really was, I would say has really been our secret sauce, is just finding that right network around us [00:10:30] and also when we show up to spaces is making the most of the space, we’re not there to collect every person’s business card. That’s not, we are about genuine relationship. And so the other part of our success is been relationship. We really foster these relationships with the folks that we’ve met, men, women, and that’s really been our magic. So between finding the right people and then really fostering those relationships, that has been, [00:11:00] that’s really been our magic point.
Craig Castellli (11:03):
Yeah, it’s cliche to say it’s about who you know, and I think a lot of people think about who you know is what can the other person do for me, but when you can legitimately solve a problem, even it’s a problem that not everybody knew they had. If you can make that a two-way reciprocal relationship, it’s powerful. I feel like I say this all the time, but you can sell a product, but at the end of the day, people do business with people and that’s really what it comes down to, whether it’s raising money or it’s [00:11:30] selling your product into these different companies, they’re buying you as much as they’re buying Unicorn.
Denielle Finkelstein (11:36):
Craig, my phrase and Thyme knows this, is we are in the business of humans, even with AI and all of those things, at the end of the day, there still is going to be this human touch. And so that’s something that we are both like, that’s a strength of ours, and so we really lean into it as much as we can because relationships are important.
Craig Castellli (11:55):
I think we have a long way to go before our AI overlords take over what you’re doing anyway.
Denielle Finkelstein (11:59):
Yes.
Craig Castellli (12:00):
[00:12:00] So what’s on the horizon these days that you’re most excited about?
Thyme Sullivan (12:05):
We’re actually really excited because now that we’ve rebranded and we have found our blue ocean and we’ve got this B2B model and our distributor network set up, and what’s been really interesting is one of our investors had us work with an impact advisor, which is not just, impact isn’t kind of in the traditional sense. It’s not just the sustainability and all the feel good things, but we’re also able to show that our model produces a positive [00:12:30] ROI for the places that bring these in a productivity ROI, the janitorial services teams are getting some efficiency ROI as well. And then these end users, we’ve been collecting data with our QR codes for three years and the response from the end users is absolutely overwhelming. And we’ve been largely active on LinkedIn in a B2B model, but I’ve got a college aged daughter and she’s like, you got to get on TikTok.
(12:59):
So we’re going to be launching [00:13:00] on TikTok to really build this groundswell because as much as we work with C-suite executives and we work with janitorial and building owners and all that, we really need women to just ask for it because when they go into work and they say, Hey, we just need to carry these products, it just makes sense. It’s really hard to say no to that when they’ve got a golf simulator and a hair salon and a chef and the crazy insane you’ve ever seen in these buildings. And so we’re certainly super excited about that. And so we’re going into fundraising right now. We’re doing [00:13:30] a $3 million raise and we’re looking for, we finally understand that a check isn’t a check that you got to find strategic partners that not only align with our mission but can help us. Everybody’s going to have some blind spots regardless of our executive pedigree in the past. And it’s finding those right strategic partners that can help us scale and in that mission to find these people. We’re meeting a lot of really incredibly smart and interesting people that are doing some pretty cool stuff [00:14:00] in the world.
Craig Castellli (14:01):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. It’s interesting you bring up not just wanting somebody to write a check, because that’s one of the most common piece of advice we give all of our clients. If you’re just after a check, that part’s easy to find. If you actually want a value added investor who can bring more to the table than just their money, that’s where you really have to take a discerning eye to everything that’s offered and everybody you’re meeting with because those investors are out there and they’re out there for just about every company. [00:14:30] It’s cutting through the noise to find that signal and figuring out who they are.
Thyme Sullivan (14:35):
Yeah, no, we said no to an investment group that would’ve closed a round that we had and we had to say no, and it was the hardest no we’ve ever said, but it just didn’t feel right. You get a bad investor on your cap table, they can make your life miserable and make it really difficult to do what you want to do. And it was so we said no. And then a much better investor came in, [00:15:00] I don’t know, within days and we were like, wow, a door closes, another opens. But to stay true to your mission and your purpose and the people you surround yourself with, it will save you a lot of heartache down the road.
Denielle Finkelstein (15:15):
We have a phrase that’s, no assholes on the cap table and also Thyme, she’s always like, can I have a drink with that person at dinner? You just want to make sure that you can sit next [00:15:30] to them and have a cocktail and have a conversation. So those are sort of two rules, but yeah.
Thyme Sullivan (15:37):
It could be a mocktail too, you just have to be interesting
Craig Castellli (15:40):
Covering all bases there. I like that. So we say that too as we look at bringing on clients. I mean, we have a similar no-asshole policy, but one of the biggest filters is do I think three years after we close this deal, I’m still going to want to get together and have a beer with you? The answer is yes, it’s going to be a much healthier relationship than if the answer is no.
Thyme Sullivan (15:58):
Yep, absolutely.
Craig Castellli (16:00):
[00:16:00] So you’re in growth mode, you’re raising money, you thinking at all about your exit?
Denielle Finkelstein (16:06):
We are. We are. And I think as we think about this fundraise, look, fundraising is never easy, but we’re excited about this fundraise because this is about accelerating the business and accelerating the mission. So when we think about the exit itself, yes, absolutely that plays into our strategic planning and where we’re looking and how we’re building and [00:16:30] also thinking about the strategic investors that we are bringing in as well as we build to that. But when we’re really what our goal is day in and day out as a team, we stick to what our mission is. We are changing women’s lives by placing period products in every bathroom stall. We keep that. All the rest is a byproduct because this alone is so massive. The total addressable market is massive. We’re talking over like $7 to $8 billion market. What we’re going [00:17:00] after, which is away from home is over a billion dollars.
(17:02):
This is just like there is something to really bite at and nobody else is doing it. And so this really is, we are going to build as much as we can. We’re super proud of the logos that we’ve already acquired. We’ve got JP Morgan Chase, we’ve got American Express, we’ve got Blackstone, we’ve got Pepsi, we’ve got Toyota, we’ve got Peloton. We’ve really dug our teeth into large Fortune 500s. And so what we do know is that what will happen is [00:17:30] a strategic investment will be what the story is going to be because somebody’s going to see, I’m not going into the space, so how do we actually just take what they have and then grow and build it and it becomes part of their portfolio. So that’s where it really comes down to every day what we do is all centered around what our mission is and keeping it super simple because truly the opportunity, you just think about it, it’s endless. Every bathroom stall, just think about that for women, there’s [00:18:00] millions and millions and millions and millions of bathrooms that we’re talking about.
Craig Castellli (18:03):
That’s just this country. There’s a massive international opportunity too. So I want to double click on something you mentioned with the strategic angle here. As you think about growing the business and building towards an exit whenever that time may come, are there any decisions you make with a strategic buyer in mind that might be different if this were just going to be another private equity play? [00:18:30] I didn’t prep them for this question, by the way.
Thyme Sullivan (18:33):
No.
Denielle Finkelstein (18:33):
That’s actually great. I love this question.
Craig Castellli (18:34):
This is real off the cuff talk.
Thyme Sullivan (18:36):
I mean, it’s very clear that this is going to be a strategic versus a private equity play because how we see it, there are a lot of companies that are in bathroom space making fixtures and they’re not providing a period care solution. So this is going to be additive. It’s going to be a point where we’re scaling quickly enough that it’s going to be much easier for somebody to acquire us than [00:19:00] to try to build it because we build the model. And it just makes sense probably because we’re consumer also, that it’s a lot easier to build to a strategic exit for what we’re doing and what we know that if our mission is what’s most important, we’re going to need somebody who’s out there all day long with working in the bathroom space.
Denielle Finkelstein (19:23):
Well, and they have the efficiencies too when it comes to the cost of the dispenser and they have efficiencies in other places too. [00:19:30] There are things that really what that is going to allow is we’ve strategically made decisions that are dispenser for the most part is offered for free. And so those are strategic decisions and that hits us in a much bigger way. Somebody who’s much larger, it’s never going to hit them barely. It’s going to be like it’s pennies to them. That’s really also where the difference of us going strategic versus PE, because they’re going to anticipate that our EBITDA needs to be so much higher and we need those numbers and margins need [00:20:00] to. So that’s really too, where we’ve been weighing things as we build the business
Craig Castellli (20:06):
And that razor blade, razor model will resonate really well with a strategic who just wants to focus on the volume and the users. Because I have to assume the reality is once you’re in a bathroom or once you’re in with a company.
Denielle Finkelstein (20:19):
It doesn’t come down.
Craig Castellli (20:20):
There’s going to be a very high bar for that to come out unless you screw up massively, they’re never going to change.
Denielle Finkelstein (20:26):
They’ve had zero churn.
Thyme Sullivan (20:28):
Three and a half years in three and a half years. [00:20:30] Impressive. Which never happens. And nobody else’s products fit in our dispensers.
Denielle Finkelstein (20:36):
So we have IP on ours, so it’s patent pending. And these are the things too that we really made sure that we protected ourselves as much as we can. Obviously somebody may end up going into the space and doing something similar, but for now, as we are growing and expanding, we still have that footprint. But nobody has gone into the bathroom stall yet.
Craig Castellli (20:57):
That’s amazing. I’ve never heard of a company with zero churn.
Denielle Finkelstein (21:00):
[00:21:00] No, it’s crazy where we have, we should make that merch. We should make merch for that. Yep, we should. Yeah, totally works for that. Yes. A half big block letters. Yeah, exactly. Unicorn, zero churn. Yeah.
Craig Castellli (21:11):
Yes. I love it. Powerful. Alright, last question here before we wrap up. Give us a piece of advice for a business owner that they’re not going to hear on every podcast they listen to.
Denielle Finkelstein (21:21):
We’re both going to share one here. I’m a big believer in sharing to folks like you belong in the room [00:21:30] and there are so many times people get imposter syndrome. You’ve been invited to something and you’re not sure how to show up. I have a rule for me and Thyme, whenever we go to an event or wherever we sit front row, she sometimes wants to kill me, but I’m like we’re sitting front row because we’re now at this stage in our lives and we’re building our own business. If you have an opportunity, one to ask a question, if you have an opportunity for somebody to see you, if you have to be memorable, we’ve got to show up. And so it’s this reminder to ourselves [00:22:00] that you belong in the room for a reason. And I’m going to give a quick little story because this is one that this changed our business. We got invited to a very small cocktail party with Jamie Dimon up here in Boston. There were 120 people there. And Thyme and I leading into that we’re like, why are we here?
Thyme Sullivan (22:19):
Wait, those of you at home who may not be aware live under a rock.
Denielle Finkelstein (22:25):
He’s the global CEO of JP Morgan Chase.
Thyme Sullivan (22:27):
The 17th most influential human on the planet.
Denielle Finkelstein (22:30):
[00:22:30] Okay,
Thyme Sullivan (22:30):
Continue.
Denielle Finkelstein (22:31):
So we get invited to this and in our minds we’re like, why are we here? And we checked ourselves very quickly and this was, that reminder was we belonged in that room for a reason. We were invited for a reason. And this was what changed our trajectory is that after he did his speech, we went up to him, thanked him, and I asked him, Jamie, do you carry toilet paper around with you? And then was able to go into our storyline about what we do. But then he said, he’s like, listen, I get it. [00:23:00] He goes, I’ve got a wife, I’ve got daughters and I’ve got granddaughters. He goes, we’re going to figure out how to make this happen. And because we showed up in that room and we recognized that we belonged in that room, that changed the entire trajectory of our business. And so it’s a reminder to people that wherever you are, any type of position you’re in, go sit in the front row, show up for those events. You don’t have to collect everybody’s business card. That’s not what it’s about. But also remember in those moments when you are in there, what are some of the things that you can do that are memorable? And [00:23:30] that might’ve been a memorable statement, but I think that’s really one of those important things.
Craig Castellli (23:35):
That’s probably one of the boldest questions he’s been asked by someone he’s met for the first time in a very long time and it worked. It paid off. What was your risk? Your risk with it? Jamie Dimon wouldn’t talk to you again anymore.
Denielle Finkelstein (23:47):
The risk is we get kicked out of the bank and we’re like, we’re going to lose our banker.
Thyme Sullivan (23:53):
We’re like, call three days later. We’re like, oh, it’s going to be very good or very bad. We don’t know what’s happening. [00:24:00] We weren’t quite sure. And that’s a good, so that is an incredible story. You belong in the room. And I’ll add just quickly, one of the things that we live by, one of the entrepreneurs that we love is Sara Blakely from Spanx self-made billionaire woman. And she has this great phrase that you can do serious things without taking yourself too seriously. And listen, let’s face it, we sell period products, but we’ve made a commitment to make it fun and to have fun along the way and enjoy the journey and keeping that in mind because if it’s not fun, we might as well go back to our corporate roles and [00:24:30] make a lot more money for her right now.
Craig Castellli (24:34):
Yeah. I feel like this is a common reframe when I talk to successful entrepreneurs. It’s like if you’re not enjoying yourself, if you’re not accomplishing whatever the purpose was, the purpose is different for everybody. For some, it’s just purely to make money. For others, it’s lifestyle. For others, it’s fun. But if you’re not accomplishing that purpose, there are a million other ways to give yourself a migraine. Why do you need to go through all the trials and tribulations of launching and growing a [00:25:00] business if there’s not something personally satisfying out of it?
Thyme Sullivan (25:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
Craig Castellli (25:05):
Thanks, Denielle and Thyme. Well, this has been a lot of fun. If anybody listening wants to find out more about Unicorn or get in touch with the two of you where should they go?
Denielle Finkelstein (25:17):
Oh, LinkedIn is our number one place. If you want to get in touch with us, follow us, send us notes. We talk to entrepreneurs all the time. It’s one of the things we absolutely love. Anything that we can always share or just help each other [00:25:30] out, that’s a huge piece. So definitely on LinkedIn, you can find us also on everystall.com. We know it’s confusing. It’s not Unicorn. We couldn’t get the Unicorn URL. So it is every stall because Unicorns should be in every stall. And then you can also, if you are a company and looking to actually purchase, we are on Amazon, so you can find us there as well to get that out to your organizations.
Thyme Sullivan (25:54):
And on our website. Yeah, you can ask us a question, you can order on our website, but everystall.com [00:26:00] is awesome and coming soon to TikTok.
Craig Castellli (26:04):
Great. Well, thanks again for joining and thanks everybody for watching us on The Close.